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Posted by Warren on January 21, 2006, 1:48 am
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Henry wrote:
>
> Everyone keeps bringing extraneous baggage to this discussion. The OP
> asked
>
>> Will a switch allow me
>> to use more than one computer at a time with a broadband cable modem.
>
> and the simple answer is 'YES'.
>
Can I shoot myself in the foot?
The simple answer is "YES". But is that really all there is to the question?
No. You're ignoring the context of the question. You've ignored the subject
line. And you've ignored the subtext. I doubt the original poster simply
wants to know if it can be done without hearing how it's a bad idea.
If you take things too literally, only answering the direct question without
any regard to why the question was asked, you're doing no one any favors. A
simple "Yes" response is not good enough.
--
Warren H.
==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Compare and buy TaxCut and TurboTax Software:
http://www.holzemville.com/taxes/
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Posted by $Bill on January 20, 2006, 8:23 pm
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Henry wrote:
>
>
>>4 computers connected to switch connected to cable modem, user
>>pays for 4 ip addresses because switch is not NATing computers.
>
>
> Not at all. The software that is doing the IP 'routing' takes care of
> the NAT too. Works a treat, too. See, for example
>
> http://www.sustworks.com/site/prod_ipnrx_overview.html
Why would you pay $100 for software that sucks up your CPU and
forces you to keep that PC on all the time to service your
other PCs (not that that's that big a deal in a lot of cases)
when you can get a dedicated router for half the price or less to
do the job that uses minuscule power and offloads your CPU and
can even handle wireless for you and eliminate the need for
another switch ?
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Posted by DLR on January 21, 2006, 8:53 am
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> Henry wrote:
>>>4 computers connected to switch connected to cable modem, user
>>>pays for 4 ip addresses because switch is not NATing computers.
>>
>>Not at all. The software that is doing the IP 'routing' takes care of
>>the NAT too. Works a treat, too. See, for example
>>
>>http://www.sustworks.com/site/prod_ipnrx_overview.html
>
> Why would you pay $100 for software that sucks up your CPU and
> forces you to keep that PC on all the time to service your
> other PCs (not that that's that big a deal in a lot of cases)
> when you can get a dedicated router for half the price or less to
> do the job that uses minuscule power and offloads your CPU and
> can even handle wireless for you and eliminate the need for
> another switch ?
Just some context. Peter of Sustainable Softworks has had these product
going back for years. And they are a great suite of products. Back in
the early days of the mass Internet he gave us a way to share our dial
up or broadband connection across multiple computers. It was a great
solution and it worked great. I did it for myself and for others. And
yes you could put a switch on a broadband modem and have a computer with
a single Ethernet port act as a router. But even Peter would tell you
that this is not the best way to go these days. I'm guessing he'd tell
you it is the last choice these days all other things being equal. And
yet there are times when this can be a good thing to be able to do
inside a fire walled office. But his "toolkit" has more to it that just
Internet sharing. I've used his stuff for years but no longer have
anyone setup with his router. But I still know of some folks who did as
of a few months ago. They had Mac OS 9 boxes with DUAL Ethernet ports
that had been running as routers for years and only changed to a "router
in a box" when something new came up.
Plus these examples of Sustainable Softworks are not broadly applicable.
These are Mac products. And Mac OS 9 especially, and OS X in general are
a just a wee bit less likely to suffer a successful attack from the
outside than any windows variant out there.
But Henry (I think he's the one arguing against us) wants us to tell the
original fellow he can do it and not mention why it's a very bad idea
these days. Sorry. I'll not do that.
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Posted by Warren on January 21, 2006, 2:29 pm
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> Just some context. Peter of Sustainable Softworks has had these product
> going back for years. And they are a great suite of products. Back in the
> early days of the mass Internet he gave us a way to share our dial up or
> broadband connection across multiple computers. It was a great solution
> and it worked great.
Yes. There are lots of things I did seven, eight and ten years ago that were
good solutions at the time, but are no longer good solutions. They're not
even acceptable solutions. Too many people look at how old technology is
obsolete, and they think it's only obsolete because some business entity
wanted to sell an upgrade. But that's not always the case. Somethings, like
Internet connection sharing, are obsolete because they've not only outgrown
their usefulnesss. They've become bad ideas.
> These are Mac products. And Mac OS 9 especially, and OS X in general are a
> just a wee bit less likely to suffer a successful attack from the outside
> than any windows variant out there.
There aren't too many hackers out there trying to attack Colicovision or
Atari OS's, either. More people jiggle door knobs in urban areas than in
rural areas, too. But it only takes one targetted incident to lose that bet
based on the odds of a random attack.
> But Henry (I think he's the one arguing against us) wants us to tell the
> original fellow he can do it and not mention why it's a very bad idea
> these days. Sorry. I'll not do that.
I agree. When someone is asking if they can do something, it makes sense to
believe that they aren't just asking if it's possible. They're looking for
some context, too.
If you were working in a grocery store, and someone walked up to you and
asked, "Do you carry canned tuna?", and all you did was answer yes, and go
on your way, that customer would be pretty darn mad. They're not asking a
simple, literal question. If the answer is yes, they assume you're smart
enough to also know that they would like to know where to find the canned
tuna. And if you're really helpful, you'll point out which brands and sizes
are the best value, and/or also point out the availability of tuna in
pouches instead of cans.
Most of us understand that. And when we further flesh-out answers other have
given, we're not arguing. We're not going off-topic. We're adding
information that adds context, and helps people -- not just the original
poster -- make informed decisions. Simple yes and no answers are often
unhelpful. And presenting a bad idea in the same context as good ideas isn't
helpful, either.
This thread in it's entirety has a lot of useful information, and has
covered many anticipated follow-up question the OP might have. Far more
useful than noting the obvious answer that yes you can physically plug
multiple devices into a switch.
--
Warren H.
==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Compare and buy TaxCut and TurboTax Software:
http://www.holzemville.com/taxes/
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Posted by Henry on January 22, 2006, 5:58 am
If you were Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options
> DLR wrote:
> > But Henry (I think he's the one arguing against us) wants us to tell the
> > original fellow he can do it and not mention why it's a very bad idea
> > these days. Sorry. I'll not do that.
>
> I agree. When someone is asking if they can do something, it makes sense to
> believe that they aren't just asking if it's possible. They're looking for
> some context, too.
There are obviously different 'levels' of helpfulness and different
interpretations of which is appropriate in any particular learning
situation.
> If you were working in a grocery store, and someone walked up to you and
> asked, "Do you carry canned tuna?", and all you did was answer yes, and go
> on your way, that customer would be pretty darn mad.
Perhaps. On the other hand, if you said with a smile 'yes, it's in aisle
seven' the customer would have no grounds for complaint. You don't have
to go into the whole song-and-dance about tuna fishermen killing
dolphins and how tofu is much better for you anyway and, here, give me
your hand, let me show you, it's right this way, completely organic,
vegan-certified, etc.
> They're not asking a
> simple, literal question. If the answer is yes, they assume you're smart
> enough to also know that they would like to know where to find the canned
> tuna. And if you're really helpful, you'll point out which brands and sizes
> are the best value, and/or also point out the availability of tuna in
> pouches instead of cans.
If you give a man a fish, you feed him for one day. Teach him how to
fish, and you've enabled him to feed himself for the rest of his life.
cheers,
Henry
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