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Posted by ed on April 6, 2009, 10:14 pm
> > ***** Moderator's Note *****
> > IANALB ISTM such databases would be sued out of existence in short order.
>
> What databases? There aren't any databases for the purpose of ratting
> out people like that officer.
http://www.whosarat.com has been repeatedly targeted by state and federal
prosecutors for "outing" their informants and dirty cops, but so far the website
operator has been able to use the First Amendment to stay online.
Valuable public service or dangerous information resource? You decide.
-Ed
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Posted by on April 6, 2009, 11:45 pm
> http://www.whosarat.com has been repeatedly targeted by state and federal
> prosecutors for "outing" their informants and dirty cops, but so far the
website
> operator has been able to use the First Amendment to stay online.
> Valuable public service or dangerous information resource? You decide.
I'm not familiar with that database.
In general the question you ask on this particular issue is not an
easy one to answer.
On the one hand, informants do provide the cops with a lot of
information that results in the rest of us being safer. Indeed, many
authorities have 800 numbers for citizens to send in tips. Our local
school board announced such a tip line for any matter regarding school
safety.
(Or cops pressure an arrested person to rat out others in return for a
lighter sentence; that's very common.)
On the other hand, such a system can be abused. I'm not sure how I
feel about such anonymous tip lines. I've heard of feuding
neighborhoods making nasty untrue accusations via such tip lines
causing the other neighbor all sorts of grief.
Let's not forget the news media makes great use of informants, too,
who may not necessarily be honest or accurate. Back in the 1950s
certain national columnists would finger communists or ex-communists
based on confidential informants and ruin the target's life.
Politicians and other public servants can have their careers ruined by
such columnists.
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Posted by MC on April 8, 2009, 12:24 pm
hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> On the other hand, such a system can be abused. I'm not sure how I
> feel about such anonymous tip lines. I've heard of feuding
> neighborhoods making nasty untrue accusations via such tip lines
> causing the other neighbor all sorts of grief.
Based on my computer security experience, it depends on how the tips are
handled when received. When we first announced a way of reporting abuse
of the computer network, some people were surprised that we would not
crucify other people at their request, without checking whether they
were really guilty. Harassment-by-tattletale is common and is often
very easy to see through.
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Posted by on April 8, 2009, 1:40 pm
wrote:
> Based on my computer security experience, it depends on how the tips are
> handled when received. When we first announced a way of reporting abuse
> of the computer network, some people were surprised that we would not
> crucify other people at their request, without checking whether they
> were really guilty. Harassment-by-tattletale is common and is often
> very easy to see through.
Unfortunately, sometimes the tips are not well handled by
investigators, indeed, there may be legal pressure to be aggressive
about it (see our recent discussion on public safety issues and
community sensitivity).
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Posted by John David Galt on April 13, 2009, 12:35 am
>> http://www.whosarat.com has been repeatedly targeted by state and federal
>> prosecutors for "outing" their informants and dirty cops, but so far the
>> website operator has been able to use the First Amendment to stay online.
>> Valuable public service or dangerous information resource? You decide.
> In general the question you ask on this particular issue is not an
> easy one to answer.
>
> On the one hand, informants do provide the cops with a lot of
> information that results in the rest of us being safer. Indeed, many
> authorities have 800 numbers for citizens to send in tips. Our local
> school board announced such a tip line for any matter regarding school
> safety.
>
> (Or cops pressure an arrested person to rat out others in return for a
> lighter sentence; that's very common.)
>
> On the other hand, such a system can be abused. I'm not sure how I
> feel about such anonymous tip lines. I've heard of feuding
> neighborhoods making nasty untrue accusations via such tip lines
> causing the other neighbor all sorts of grief.
I'm all for the use of informants under well controlled conditions.
But when their testimony is used (even if only as cause for a warrant),
prosecutors should be required to tell the jury everything, including
the informant's entire rap sheet and the whole deal that was made with
him/her. And the government should never be allowed to use informants
as a means to do things they can't do themselves (such as entrap
suspects into committing crimes or bully suspects into confessing).
The same goes for cops who have committed perjury, planted evidence,
taken bribes, or otherwise abused their positions. Federal law now
hides that information from juries, even when it would and should make
them very skeptical of that cop's testimony.
[ObTelecom] And I'd like to see a national version of the law in some
states that forces all interrogations to be videotaped and made
available for defense attorneys to show to juries.
> Let's not forget the news media makes great use of informants, too,
> who may not necessarily be honest or accurate. Back in the 1950s
> certain national columnists would finger communists or ex-communists
> based on confidential informants and ruin the target's life.
The media (and bloggers) should be given more slack than the police
because the media can't use force.
> Politicians and other public servants can have their careers ruined by
> such columnists.
Politicians should be held to a higher standard than ordinary people
because they have the power to destroy people's lives. Cops, too.
But against the media or a blogger, replying in kind or (if you can't)
suing for libel is sufficient remedy.
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> > IANALB ISTM such databases would be sued out of existence in short order.