old building, alternatives to rewiring?

old building, alternatives to rewiring?

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Subject Author Date
old building, alternatives to rewiring? Mike 09-27-2006
Posted by Mike on September 27, 2006, 3:08 pm
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I have a few wiring bids for an older/old building we occupy. I want to
rewire the data portion of the building, but the cost is prohibitive
(final decision tomorrow). Currently we have a single gig switch that
supports many mini-switches, one mini-switch in each office. We're a small
software development shop and have only 15 people, but we have twice that
number of computers for development, application building, support, and
training. The machines are currently 100Mb/s. The application building
machines might benefit from gig access to the servers where test case
data is stored.

My guess of the moment is that I will not be rewiring the building. My
next guess is to replace all consumer mini-switches with something more
commercial. Can someone recommend a more commercial alternative to the
multitide of plastic heat sources that I can find in CompUSA or Best Buy?

Mike

NMFall 20%
Posted by glen herrmannsfeldt on September 28, 2006, 2:11 am
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Mike wrote:

> I have a few wiring bids for an older/old building we occupy. I want to
> rewire the data portion of the building, but the cost is prohibitive
> (final decision tomorrow). Currently we have a single gig switch that
> supports many mini-switches, one mini-switch in each office. We're a small
> software development shop and have only 15 people, but we have twice that
> number of computers for development, application building, support, and
> training. The machines are currently 100Mb/s. The application building
> machines might benefit from gig access to the servers where test case
> data is stored.

You don't say why you want to rewire. If the servers are near the
gigabit switch, replacing the server NICs with gigabit NICs would be
a good start.


Next easiest is to replace the mini-switches, which I assume are
100Mb/s, with gigabit mini-switches. The real answer depends a lot on
the traffic patterns, but with gigabit switches you should have enough
for full speed 100Mb/s connections between a few machines at once, or
from some machines to the servers. It is normally very unlikely for
all machines to require full 100Mb/s at the same time, and the servers
probably wouldn't handle it well, anyway. (Especially not running
windows.)

That should be fairly affordable, though it might be that your
current net is fast enough.

-- glen



Posted by Mike on September 28, 2006, 8:04 am
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> Mike wrote:
>
>> I have a few wiring bids for an older/old building we occupy. I want to
>> rewire the data portion of the building, but the cost is prohibitive
>> (final decision tomorrow). Currently we have a single gig switch that
>> supports many mini-switches, one mini-switch in each office. We're a small
>> software development shop and have only 15 people, but we have twice that
>> number of computers for development, application building, support, and
>> training. The machines are currently 100Mb/s. The application building
>> machines might benefit from gig access to the servers where test case
>> data is stored.
>
> You don't say why you want to rewire. If the servers are near the
> gigabit switch, replacing the server NICs with gigabit NICs would be
> a good start.
>
>
> Next easiest is to replace the mini-switches, which I assume are
> 100Mb/s, with gigabit mini-switches. The real answer depends a lot on
> the traffic patterns, but with gigabit switches you should have enough
> for full speed 100Mb/s connections between a few machines at once, or
> from some machines to the servers. It is normally very unlikely for
> all machines to require full 100Mb/s at the same time, and the servers
> probably wouldn't handle it well, anyway. (Especially not running
> windows.)
>
> That should be fairly affordable, though it might be that your
> current net is fast enough.
>
> -- glen
>
>

The current setup is a central 24 port gig switch (hp 2626)
that has each of the ports going to mini-switches in each of
the offices. We're a small development shop. Each office has
a windows workstation for the developer and at least one other
computer used as a build or support machine. In the training room
I have nine windows machines that are connected to mini-switches
before reaching the main (core) switch.

Instead of a hub-and-spoke I have something more like a fractal
snowflake. I wanted to rewire the building (our floor) to
run enough drops to each office so that I could eliminate the
mini-switches and run every machine directly from the central
switch(es). Because of the age of the building with exterior
walls of brick and interior walls that are near impossible to fish
cables inside, I'm switching to plan B where I keep the existing
wiring and replace the mini-switches with something that is more
commercial than a linksys 'workgroup' switch.

Looking at newegg I find the SMC and Netgear devices that
look interesting. I prefer not to have wall-warts and for the
switches to have internal power supplies, but that want may not
be practical for switches that are 5 to 8 ports (and in one case
it may be a 12 port switch in the training room).

One option is to use wireless, but I don't like that option. When
the nightly build happens all source code is mirrored to each
build machine, the application built, then there are many test
cases with a large amount of data for each test case that must be
available for each build machine's test after the build. I do not
want to send that much data across a wireless link and I do not
want to use a wireless link anyway. I prefer actual wiring and
many of the machines are unix boxes that I could not get direct
installed wireless cards for anyway.

Mike

Posted by glen herrmannsfeldt on September 28, 2006, 1:47 pm
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(snip)

> The current setup is a central 24 port gig switch (hp 2626)
> that has each of the ports going to mini-switches in each of
> the offices. We're a small development shop. Each office has
> a windows workstation for the developer and at least one other
> computer used as a build or support machine. In the training room
> I have nine windows machines that are connected to mini-switches
> before reaching the main (core) switch.

If a reasonable fraction of the traffic is local to each
office, then it is probably fine with 100Mb/s switches.
The price for smaller gigabit switches has come down enough,
though, that it would seem to make more sense to replace the
switches than the cable. One cable at gigabit speed is worth
at least 10 running at 100Mb/s.

> Instead of a hub-and-spoke I have something more like a fractal
> snowflake. I wanted to rewire the building (our floor) to
> run enough drops to each office so that I could eliminate the
> mini-switches and run every machine directly from the central
> switch(es).

From an administrative viewpoint, that is probably better.
If you don't worry about that, then I don't think it
is worthwhile.

> Because of the age of the building with exterior
> walls of brick and interior walls that are near impossible to fish
> cables inside, I'm switching to plan B where I keep the existing
> wiring and replace the mini-switches with something that is more
> commercial than a linksys 'workgroup' switch.

> Looking at newegg I find the SMC and Netgear devices that
> look interesting. I prefer not to have wall-warts and for the
> switches to have internal power supplies, but that want may not
> be practical for switches that are 5 to 8 ports (and in one case
> it may be a 12 port switch in the training room).

My favorite 100baseTX switch has an internal power supply.
I don't know if Allied Telesyn makes a gigabit version yet.

> One option is to use wireless, but I don't like that option. When
> the nightly build happens all source code is mirrored to each
(snip)

With wireless at 54Mb/s it sounds good, but that is shared, and
it isn't shared as well as ethernet.

-- glen

Posted by Rick Jones on September 28, 2006, 2:28 pm
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> The current setup is a central 24 port gig switch (hp 2626) that has
> each of the ports going to mini-switches in each of the
> offices. We're a small development shop. Each office has a windows
> workstation for the developer and at least one other computer used
> as a build or support machine. In the training room I have nine
> windows machines that are connected to mini-switches before reaching
> the main (core) switch.

What is the "grade" of cable from the central 2626 to the room
switches? Can it support Gigabit?

> One option is to use wireless, but I don't like that option.

Doesn't wireless max-out at 100ish Mbit shared?

I'm not in the ProCurve side of the house, but I just startred
perusing http://www.hp.com/go/procurve and it seems there are some new
edge switches which are 10/100/1000, one of which is:

http://www.hp.com/rnd/products/switches/ProCurve_Switch_1800_Series/overview.htm

The "8G" version is table-top with an external power supply. The 24G
version appears to have an internal power supply.

If you don't need the switches to be managed, then the 2700's might
fit the bill:

http://www.hp.com/rnd/products/switches/switch2708-2724/overview.htm

both have internal power supplies.

Or if you only want the GbE up to the central switch:

http://www.hp.com/rnd/products/switches/switch2324-2312/overview.htm

rick jones
--
denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance, rebirth...
where do you want to be today?
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...

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