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Posted by Le Chaud Lapin on July 5, 2008, 11:25 am
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wrote:
> Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
> >> TLDR
>
> >> Quit whinging about it and move on.
>
> > No one asked your opinion.
>
> Out of interest, who asked yours?
>
> And FYI, this is usenet, nor your private chatroom. You post a comment,
> people reply, thats how it works. Not all the replies will agree with
> you or be ones you like. If you don't like the replies, grow a thicker
> skin.
I made the comment anticipating that someone, especially the person I
made it to, would respond as you and Robert Redelmeier did.
What is remarkable is what you both say is 100% true, which means we
could go back an forth indefinitely.
In essence, anything goes.
-Le Chaud Lapin-
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Posted by Jeff Liebermann on July 5, 2008, 12:02 pm
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On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 08:25:26 -0700 (PDT), Le Chaud Lapin
>What is remarkable is what you both say is 100% true, which means we
>could go back an forth indefinitely.
The easiest way to determine if you want to continue an endless
discussion is to ask yourself if you would be interested in reading
what you're about to post. If the answer is negative, then cease,
desist, and don't post. Following my own advice, some useful content:
There's been some litigation over "Vista Capable" and "Vista Ready"
claims for various products that really are not.
<http://blogs.computerworld.com/bought_a_vista_capable_junk_pc_you_may_be_in_luck>
Google should help you find other suits involving claims of false
compatibility. For example, Nvidia can't seem to get it right:
<http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/03/0110248>
<http://www.nvidiaclassaction.org>
If you're serious about having been grievously injured by your
purchase of a Zyxel AG-225H, then I suggest you initiate or join one
of the numerous class action suits. Otherwise, just return it to your
vendor or sell it on eBay.
>In essence, anything goes.
In reality, everything goes.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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Posted by Le Chaud Lapin on July 5, 2008, 12:44 pm
If you were Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options > On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 08:25:26 -0700 (PDT), Le Chaud Lapin
>
> >What is remarkable is what you both say is 100% true, which means we
> >could go back an forth indefinitely.
>
> The easiest way to determine if you want to continue an endless
> discussion is to ask yourself if you would be interested in reading
> what you're about to post. =A0If the answer is negative, then cease,
> desist, and don't post. =A0Following my own advice, some useful content:
>
> There's been some litigation over "Vista Capable" and "Vista Ready"
> claims for various products that really are not.
> <http://blogs.computerworld.com/bought_a_vista_capable_junk_pc_you_may...=
>
> Google should help you find other suits involving claims of false
> compatibility. =A0For example, Nvidia can't seem to get it right:
> <http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=3D07/02/03/0110248>
> <http://www.nvidiaclassaction.org>
> If you're serious about having been grievously injured by your
> purchase of a Zyxel AG-225H, then I suggest you initiate or join one
> of the numerous class action suits. =A0Otherwise, just return it to your
> vendor or sell it on eBay.
>
> >In essence, anything goes.
>
> In reality, everything goes.
I guess one should not be suprised that a few companies are trying to
claim Vista-compatibility when they know that it is non-existent or
partially existent. No one wants to wasted development resources on an
OS that has been adopted with uncertainty.
In the case of Zyxel, it appears that the only truly Vista-compatible
software is the device driver itself and the Installshield shell that
does the installation, which, of course, they didn't write. The rest
of the software, if I am not mistaken, is XP-only. But since NDIS 5.1
drivers will often work without modification from XP to Vista x86, my
guess is that the driver was tested to see if it would work in station-
only mode on Vista, and if it did, then Zyxel resolved that they would
claim "Microsoft Vista Support Out Of The Box", knowing that no
software was written specifically for Vista, but hoping that anyone
hoping to use the the Access Point feature on Vista would not
complain.
In any case, as of 2008-06-02, the US Federal Trade Commision has
launched a formal investigation of Zyxel's Vista-support claims of the
AG-225H, so we'll see what happens.
Your links and comments much appreciated,
-Le Chaud Lapin-
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Posted by Jeff Liebermann on July 5, 2008, 3:02 pm
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>> For example, Nvidia can't seem to get it right:
>> <http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/03/0110248>
>> <http://www.nvidiaclassaction.org>
Ooops. That was a terrible example as the class action web pile is
now owned by a domain squatter and the class action suit was
apparently never initiated.
>I guess one should not be suprised that a few companies are trying to
>claim Vista-compatibility when they know that it is non-existent or
>partially existent. No one wants to wasted development resources on an
>OS that has been adopted with uncertainty.
I know of one company, that paid an expert to test some of their
existing XP drivers for Vista compatibility. They didn't want to pay
Microsoft to certify the drivers. Apparently, he did a not so
wonderful job of testing, and pronounced that everything was just fine
with minimal tweaks. The company announced that most of their
products and drivers installed and functioned under Vista. It took
about a month for the complaints to accumulate in support, along with
a dramatic increase in returns, to convince marketing that perhaps
something was not quite right. I haven't bothered to check if
anything was actually done about it.
For entertainment value, MS labels "Vista Capable" and "Vista Premium
Ready" PC's.
<http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/capable.mspx>
and various levels of Vista certification. You might wanna see if
your hardware is compatible, ready, certified, blessed, or compatible:
<http://winqual.microsoft.com/HCL/Default.aspx> (IE6 or IE7 only).
Looks like Zyxel has certified some wireless devices, but not the
AG-225H.
<http://winqual.microsoft.com/HCL/ProductList.aspx?m=v&g=d&cid=711&f=86p>
Note that some of the model numbers are missing from the certification
list. I wonder why.
>only mode on Vista, and if it did, then Zyxel resolved that they would
>claim "Microsoft Vista Support Out Of The Box",
Actually, that phrase is not one of the offical Microsoft labels and
could very well indicate that they did their own testing.
Incidentally, if you read the phrase exactly as you wrote it, it means
you can call Microsoft and get Vista support by opening the box. I
don't think that's what they intended, but that's what it says. Not a
very good OOBE (out of box experience).
>In any case, as of 2008-06-02, the US Federal Trade Commision has
>launched a formal investigation of Zyxel's Vista-support claims of the
>AG-225H, so we'll see what happens.
Reference? URL? I couldn't find anything with Google.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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Posted by Le Chaud Lapin on July 5, 2008, 4:25 pm
If you were Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options > For entertainment value, MS labels "Vista Capable" and "Vista Premium
> Ready" PC's.
> <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/c...=
>
> and various levels of Vista certification. =A0You might wanna see if
> your hardware is compatible, ready, certified, blessed, or compatible:
> Looks like Zyxel has certified some wireless devices, but not the
> AG-225H.
> <http://winqual.microsoft.com/HCL/ProductList.aspx?m=3Dv&g=3Dd&cid=3D711&=
f=3D86p>
> Note that some of the model numbers are missing from the certification
> list. =A0I wonder why.
>
> >only mode on Vista, and if it did, then Zyxel resolved that they would
> >claim "Microsoft Vista Support Out Of The Box",
>
> Actually, that phrase is not one of the offical Microsoft labels and
> could very well indicate that they did their own testing.
Oh I bet they did. Remember here, though, I am not talking about the
driver. It was the user-mode software that does not work on Vista,
and the user-mode software drives the driver, which means that, if
all I have are Vista machines, I cannot use the dongle as an AP.
> Incidentally, if you read the phrase exactly as you wrote it, it means
> you can call Microsoft and get Vista support by opening the box. =A0I
> don't think that's what they intended, but that's what it says. =A0Not a
> very good OOBE (out of box experience).
>
> >In any case, as of 2008-06-02, the US Federal Trade Commision has
> >launched a formal investigation of Zyxel's Vista-support claims of the
> >AG-225H, so we'll see what happens.
>
> Reference? =A0URL? =A0I couldn't find anything with Google.
The investigation just started (at my behest), meaning any consumer
can cause and investigation of any company for any reasonable claim of
false advertising.
I will however, say that the FTC representative was suprisingly
diligent in verifiying details, etc. I also discerned from our
conversation Zyxel is not the only company playing this game.
-Le Chaud Lapin-
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