Re: [telecom] How's Pat? [Telecom]

Re: [telecom] How's Pat? [Telecom]

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Re: [telecom] How's Pat? [Telecom] Bruce L. Bergman 04-13-2008
Posted by Bruce L. Bergman on April 13, 2008, 8:23 pm
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On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 00:13:51 -0400 (EDT), Wes Leatherock

> With all due respect, Bell/W.E. did not design
>SxS. That was done by, or at the behest of, a Kansas
>City undertaker named Strowger, as I recall.
>
> When the first dial office was established in
>Oklahoma City, in 1920, it had to come from Automatic
>Electric, since there was none from Bell/W.E.
>
> Some of it was still is service into the 1950s
>and I think probably another 10 years or so late.
>(Additions to the office, and other SxS offices in
>Oklahoma City, starting in 1927, were W.E. equipment,
>since they had discovered by then that not all of the
>U.S. is served by great megaplexes and there was also
>a need for dial equipment for smaller cities where
>common control would have been, to put it mildly, an
>absurdity.

Step gone by the 1950's? Maybe in the Bell System, but not at
independents - Try 1986 for the last "100% Mechanical Step" office,
and at least 1992 for it to all be cut out of service through digital
switch expansions and replacements.

Lancaster CA was the last SoCal GTE switchroom running 100% AE
Strowger and all-relay Type 62 'rural' SATT. (They did not have a way
to retrofit the Proctor/IBM Electronic Director system to a Type 62
office, so it kept chugging away - grossly overloaded.)

Local calls dialed 7-digit, and for toll you dialed 1 to get a
director and second dial tone, and they shipped almost everything toll
out to a tandem.

GTE was being rather pragmatic - they didn't want to install a bunch
of 1A-EAX and 2-EAX 'analog electronic' reed-relay offices just to
eliminate Step, and then have to yank those switches right back out
again in 10 years when Digital was finally ready. They wouldn't have
had them fully depreciated yet.

The mixed offices that started out Step and already had a 1A-EAX,
2-EAX, 5ESS or GTD5 installed for expansion were either expanded
further or replaced to absorb the step and analog electronic prefixes.
I was out of COE Installation and in Construction Splicing before they
finished that.

--<< Bruce >>--


Pure Networks
Posted by Steven Lichter on April 14, 2008, 10:33 am
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Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 00:13:51 -0400 (EDT), Wes Leatherock
>
>> With all due respect, Bell/W.E. did not design
>> SxS. That was done by, or at the behest of, a Kansas
>> City undertaker named Strowger, as I recall.
>>
>> When the first dial office was established in
>> Oklahoma City, in 1920, it had to come from Automatic
>> Electric, since there was none from Bell/W.E.
>>
>> Some of it was still is service into the 1950s
>> and I think probably another 10 years or so late.
>> (Additions to the office, and other SxS offices in
>> Oklahoma City, starting in 1927, were W.E. equipment,
>> since they had discovered by then that not all of the
>> U.S. is served by great megaplexes and there was also
>> a need for dial equipment for smaller cities where
>> common control would have been, to put it mildly, an
>> absurdity.
>
> Step gone by the 1950's? Maybe in the Bell System, but not at
> independents - Try 1986 for the last "100% Mechanical Step" office,
> and at least 1992 for it to all be cut out of service through digital
> switch expansions and replacements.
>
> Lancaster CA was the last SoCal GTE switchroom running 100% AE
> Strowger and all-relay Type 62 'rural' SATT. (They did not have a way
> to retrofit the Proctor/IBM Electronic Director system to a Type 62
> office, so it kept chugging away - grossly overloaded.)
>
> Local calls dialed 7-digit, and for toll you dialed 1 to get a
> director and second dial tone, and they shipped almost everything toll
> out to a tandem.
>
> GTE was being rather pragmatic - they didn't want to install a bunch
> of 1A-EAX and 2-EAX 'analog electronic' reed-relay offices just to
> eliminate Step, and then have to yank those switches right back out
> again in 10 years when Digital was finally ready. They wouldn't have
> had them fully depreciated yet.
>
> The mixed offices that started out Step and already had a 1A-EAX,
> 2-EAX, 5ESS or GTD5 installed for expansion were either expanded
> further or replaced to absorb the step and analog electronic prefixes.
> I was out of COE Installation and in Construction Splicing before they
> finished that.
>
> --<< Bruce >>--
>
The last Step switch in GTE California was cut over to 5EAX on
12/01/1990 and it was at Walnut Grove, Calif. I'm not sure if it was the
last one in other GTE companies. I am also remember the Proctor/IBM
Electronic director system. We had one at Edgemont CO in Moreno Valley,
Calif. That was cut out when the office went GTD5. It sat there for
some years because it was owned by Bank of America Lease and no one knew
what to do, BofA did not want it and GTE was not going to pay for it to
be removed. After a few years we needed the area for something; can't
remember what, anyways we junked it out. I helped put it in but never
really understood how it worked.

--
The Only Good Spammer is a Dead one!! Have you hunted one down today?
(c) 2008 I Kill Spammers, Inc. A Rot In Hell Co.


Posted by Sam Spade on April 15, 2008, 1:17 pm
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Steven Lichter wrote:

>>
>> GTE was being rather pragmatic - they didn't want to install a bunch
>> of 1A-EAX and 2-EAX 'analog electronic' reed-relay offices just to
>> eliminate Step, and then have to yank those switches right back out
>> again in 10 years when Digital was finally ready. They wouldn't have
>> had them fully depreciated yet.

I had no idea how bad GTE (General Telephone Company of California then)
was until I moved from a Pacific Telephone area to Glendora, California
in 1969. The deterioation of toll service from 1969 to 1979 was
astounding. During busy times my toll rate failure grew to 90%.

Complaining to the CPUC did little good. They knew how bad the
situation was, but decided to keep a lid on it.

I finally had to resort to bringing in an FEX line from the new Pacific
No. 1ESS in the contiguous El Monte exchange in 1975. Even with that,
the General faught me every step of the way. They first placed me on N
carrier that was horribly out of balance. I complained to the PUC
informally on deaf ears. I then filed a formal complaint, and it was
dismissed with an agreement to cut me to T carrier.

I then wanted calling features tarffied by Pacific. The General said
no, they had not filed to concur. I then requested that Pacific place
my number in an airport hangar I had at El Monte airport and do an
off-premise extension to my home in Glendora. The General said,
"Matters not, we will block the line if it has calling features. This
got to Pacific and they complained to the PUC because I would become
primarily their customer with an off-premise extension. The General
relented, and filed to concur on calling features. I din't have to play
the off prem game.

In 1977, I got a vacation condo at the beach in south Orange county,
served by a Pacific No. 1ESS. I "played" telephone at each location
during busy hours, making lots of calls to the unoccupied other
location. The completion rate from Pacific to General was almost 100%.
From General to Pacific is was around 10%, and you would have to wait
up to 90 seconds for the ATB signal to appear from the General SxS
switcher. During all this time non-toll Glendora calls would complete
nearly 100% of the time. Thus, the toll director was the culprit.

I filed a formal complaint with all the stats I had compiled. The CPUC
ALJ assigned the case called me (very unusual, ex-parte communication)
and pleaded with me to dismiss. He said I was "spot on" but that CPUC
staff would do everything it could to sandbag my case, because they did
not want any of this to become a matter of record. I gave up because by
then it had become apparent I was going to move to the beach location
(where I am to this day).

Glendora finally got a GTD5 in 1986.

During the time I lived in Glendora, I told everyone I knew who had a
telephone-toll-intensive business to make sure they located in a Pacific
area. In fact, I convinced a few mid-size businesses to move. They all
ever pleased with the move.

Ironically, once the General decided to dig himself out of this hole of
years of corporate neglect, the company really came along. They knew
the GTD-5 was fine for residential service, but the placed either a
DMS-100 or 5ESS in their bigger offices to serve businesses with
sophisticated needs. By the time Verizon bought them, GTE, at least in
Southern California was, in some ways, better than Pacific Bell by that
time.


Posted by on April 15, 2008, 3:59 pm
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>
> I had no idea how bad GTE (General Telephone Company of California then)
> was until I moved from a Pacific Telephone area to Glendora, California
> in 1969. The deterioation of toll service from 1969 to 1979 was
> astounding. During busy times my toll rate failure grew to 90%.

As I understand it, no matter what service problems the former Bell
System had in the 1960s, the Independent companies had it worse.
Often they had limited capital for upgrades, and sometimes they were
in growing areas they could not afford to support. Often the
companies were badly fragmented; for some reason they waited until the
1980s to make common-sense trades with other companies so as to build
up contiguous service territories. Also, some of the smallest
carriers merged upward.

My sister's SxS C.O. was horrible until they went to ESS in the
1980s.

For healthy companies, getting rid of SxS early on saved money as ESS
was much more automated and didn't require sending out a craftsman on
a 100 mile trip for maintenance work. Also, ESS took up less floor
space and expansion meant they did not have expand the building. Some
healthy companies were able to get into cable TV and cell phones as
well.


Posted by Steven Lichter on April 16, 2008, 1:44 pm
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Sam Spade wrote:
> Steven Lichter wrote:
>
>>>
>>> GTE was being rather pragmatic - they didn't want to install a bunch
>>> of 1A-EAX and 2-EAX 'analog electronic' reed-relay offices just to
>>> eliminate Step, and then have to yank those switches right back out
>>> again in 10 years when Digital was finally ready. They wouldn't have
>>> had them fully depreciated yet.
>
> I had no idea how bad GTE (General Telephone Company of California then)
> was until I moved from a Pacific Telephone area to Glendora, California
> in 1969. The deterioation of toll service from 1969 to 1979 was
> astounding. During busy times my toll rate failure grew to 90%.
>
> Complaining to the CPUC did little good. They knew how bad the
> situation was, but decided to keep a lid on it.
>
> I finally had to resort to bringing in an FEX line from the new Pacific
> No. 1ESS in the contiguous El Monte exchange in 1975. Even with that,
> the General faught me every step of the way. They first placed me on N
> carrier that was horribly out of balance. I complained to the PUC
> informally on deaf ears. I then filed a formal complaint, and it was
> dismissed with an agreement to cut me to T carrier.
>
> I then wanted calling features tarffied by Pacific. The General said
> no, they had not filed to concur. I then requested that Pacific place
> my number in an airport hangar I had at El Monte airport and do an
> off-premise extension to my home in Glendora. The General said,
> "Matters not, we will block the line if it has calling features. This
> got to Pacific and they complained to the PUC because I would become
> primarily their customer with an off-premise extension. The General
> relented, and filed to concur on calling features. I din't have to play
> the off prem game.
>
> In 1977, I got a vacation condo at the beach in south Orange county,
> served by a Pacific No. 1ESS. I "played" telephone at each location
> during busy hours, making lots of calls to the unoccupied other
> location. The completion rate from Pacific to General was almost 100%.
> From General to Pacific is was around 10%, and you would have to wait
> up to 90 seconds for the ATB signal to appear from the General SxS
> switcher. During all this time non-toll Glendora calls would complete
> nearly 100% of the time. Thus, the toll director was the culprit.
>
> I filed a formal complaint with all the stats I had compiled. The CPUC
> ALJ assigned the case called me (very unusual, ex-parte communication)
> and pleaded with me to dismiss. He said I was "spot on" but that CPUC
> staff would do everything it could to sandbag my case, because they did
> not want any of this to become a matter of record. I gave up because by
> then it had become apparent I was going to move to the beach location
> (where I am to this day).
>
> Glendora finally got a GTD5 in 1986.
>
> During the time I lived in Glendora, I told everyone I knew who had a
> telephone-toll-intensive business to make sure they located in a Pacific
> area. In fact, I convinced a few mid-size businesses to move. They all
> ever pleased with the move.
>
> Ironically, once the General decided to dig himself out of this hole of
> years of corporate neglect, the company really came along. They knew
> the GTD-5 was fine for residential service, but the placed either a
> DMS-100 or 5ESS in their bigger offices to serve businesses with
> sophisticated needs. By the time Verizon bought them, GTE, at least in
> Southern California was, in some ways, better than Pacific Bell by that
> time.
>

By 1986 deregulation had cut in and the GTD5 was made by AGCS which was
owned by AE and Western Electric. As to the 5ESS,DMS100 or GTD5
switches, it had nothing to do with being a business or not. It had to
do with bids on the office by the 3 companies. GTE had offices that had
both GTD5 switches as well as either or 5E's or DMS's.

It was a merger which BellAtlantic and GTE which formed Verizon, which
had 2 CEO's for a few years. The standards have not changed much since
once GTE went to Digital switching, the standards were very good.

I started with GTE(CWT) in 1967 and spent my 30 years with the company
in CO Construction which built the offices. Different areas had
problems and some had non. I believe Glendora was an old CWT area and
the owners at the time put very little back into the company. I worked
and lived in Huntington Beach and we had very good service. Many of
the problems had to do with the Directors. Most former CWT areas had 48
SATT, the areas with 53 and 53A or 62 SATT completed most calls, local
or toll. Also once GTE had it own Toll Centers things even got better.
It seems during busy time the PacBell/ATT offices choked off toll calls
coming into their areas to keep their circuits from overloading. I know
this because for no reason at all, toll repeaters or carrier systems
between th offices would go busy.

I have done contract work in Verizon offices since I have retired and to
me they are not a customer friendly as when I was with them, the company
is just too big and has taken the old Bell Head manner.


--
The Only Good Spammer is a Dead one!! Have you hunted one down today?
(c) 2008 I Kill Spammers, Inc. A Rot In Hell Co.


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