Powerline modem

Powerline modem
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Subject Author Date
Powerline modem Gireesh 02-07-2005
| |--> Re: Powerline modem phil-news-nospam02-09-2005
Posted by Rick Merrill on February 7, 2005, 8:58 pm
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Don Lancaster wrote:

> Jim Thompson wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 23:00:32 GMT, Joerg
>>
>>
>>> Hello Rick,
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you have a EE PHD from MIT, go for it. Do you realize that the
>>>> high fequency transmission characteristics of most peoples
>>>> "powerline" changes constantly and essentially randomly? - RM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For power metering it seems that the OP only needs a very narrow
>>> channel bandwidth. The challenge will be mostly in the analog and
>>> filter design arena but it can be done. Then, of course, there are
>>> the transformers that need to be bridged.
>>>
>>> Regards, Joerg
>>>
>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com
>>
>>
>>
>> The two remote electric power measurement schemes I know of:
>>
>> (1) RF transmitter at your meter, "neighborhood" receiver located on a
>> pole, then connection to phone lines.
>>
>> (2) Modem connection between your meter and *your* phone line. Power
>> company polls your modem.
>>
>> ...Jim Thompson
>
>
> I guess I was involved in the earliest of powerline carrier
> communications. Back in 1961 at Femco.
>
> It did not work then and it will not work now.
>
> Ferinstance, an ancient Diablo 630 printer has such a good noise filter
> that it takes out any X-10 device within 200 feet.
>

There is work that has used cell phone methods to dynamically adapt the
power frequency to fit the power line characteristics. Remember, anytime
an expert says something can be done, he/she is probably right; and
anytime an expert says something can not be done, he/she is probably
wrong. - Rm



NMFall 20%
Posted by Dave Houston on February 8, 2005, 2:07 am
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>Jim Thompson wrote:
>> On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 23:00:32 GMT, Joerg
>>
>>
>>>Hello Rick,
>>>
>>>
>>>>If you have a EE PHD from MIT, go for it. Do you realize that the high
>>>>fequency transmission characteristics of most peoples "powerline"
>>>>changes constantly and essentially randomly? - RM
>>>
>>>
>>>For power metering it seems that the OP only needs a very narrow channel
>>>bandwidth. The challenge will be mostly in the analog and filter design
>>>arena but it can be done. Then, of course, there are the transformers
>>>that need to be bridged.
>>>
>>>Regards, Joerg
>>>
>>>http://www.analogconsultants.com
>>
>>
>> The two remote electric power measurement schemes I know of:
>>
>> (1) RF transmitter at your meter, "neighborhood" receiver located on a
>> pole, then connection to phone lines.
>>
>> (2) Modem connection between your meter and *your* phone line. Power
>> company polls your modem.
>>
>> ...Jim Thompson
>
>I guess I was involved in the earliest of powerline carrier
>communications. Back in 1961 at Femco.
>
>It did not work then and it will not work now.
>
>Ferinstance, an ancient Diablo 630 printer has such a good noise filter
>that it takes out any X-10 device within 200 feet.

http://www.archnetco.com/
http://www.sei.co.jp/sn/2004/327/feature_article.html
http://www.advanceddd.com/ADD1010.htm
http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/folders/print/plc-emeter.html
http://www.yitran.com/
http://vchips.co.kr/eng_product/system.html
http://www.oakvillehydro.com/ohesi_business_meters_quadlogic_utility.asp



Posted by Joerg on February 8, 2005, 2:33 am
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Hi Don,

> It did not work then and it will not work now.


Not for broadband. But for low BW communication it can.

> Ferinstance, an ancient Diablo 630 printer has such a good noise
> filter that it takes out any X-10 device within 200 feet.


Even a brandnew color printer/scanner did that out here. Had to crack
out the toroid box and give it an individual choke per wire plus a cap
which fixed the problem. Lots of people in our neighborhood keep stashes
of Aspirin or Tylenol. I maintain a bucket of $43 toroids.

But remember, X10 is an ancient AM protocol with little noise tolerance.
Then I found that almost all modules were off from carrier frequency so
after tuning them all up this increased liability greatly. If a suitable
multi-frequency narrowband protocol was adopted this kind of appliance
control would work like a champ. It's just that nobody seems to do it,
they don't see the market potential..

As to power metering I probably would first sit down with the financial
people of a cell phone carrier. It doesn't take a lot of their currency
(kb/sec) per account to transfer a meter reading.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com


Posted by James Knott on February 7, 2005, 9:41 pm
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Joerg wrote:

> Lots of people in our neighborhood keep stashes
> of Aspirin or Tylenol. I maintain a bucket of $43 toroids.

Aren't they hard to swallow? ;-)



Posted by John on February 8, 2005, 11:12 pm
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Don Lancaster wrote:

> I guess I was involved in the earliest of powerline carrier
> communications. Back in 1961 at Femco.
>
> It did not work then and it will not work now.
>
> Ferinstance, an ancient Diablo 630 printer has such a good noise filter
> that it takes out any X-10 device within 200 feet.

Powerline communications doesn't work in the 21st century? Really? Gosh
somebody forgot to tell these people:
http://www.powerlinecommunications.net/whatispowerline.htm

PPL has had running broadband Internet over powerline services in select
markets for a few years now. Some other utilties have similar programs.
http://www.thestreet.com/_tsclsii/tech/themarker/10045487.html

Utilities not only have another revenue stream and an efficient Internet
distribution method, but also gain the benefit of a communications channel
to/from their meters.

The ARRL (amateur radio group) has spoken out against some powerline
communications, out of fears that it will cause interference to them.



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